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I think yeah this is a big difference, Nintendo's past hardware philosophies may not apply.
Yamauchi chased cutting edge hardware at times like the SGI N64 chip, Iwata didn't, Furukawa could again have his own ideas.
This all makes sense to me, and an open source model seems like a solid prediction in the long run. Since posting, I have had the thought the restrictions of real-time rendering could end up being a saving grace for medium-size studios, since the size and number of parameters in the network have to be quite restricted to fit within the frame time budget. Perhaps this could make training at least feasible, unless an extremely large training set is required for good results.
I have seen a few posters use temporal injection as a general term this way, but in my opinion, temporal upscaling is probably the best general purpose descriptor for this class of algorithms. Just looking at a few brands for solutions that I believe fall under this umbrella:
- temporal injection: Insomniac (and also apparently Ghost Recon Breakpoint uses this terminology?)
- temporal super sampling anti-aliasing (TSSAA): id tech
- temporal upsampling: Call of Duty Infinite Warfare, Unreal Engine 4 (as TAAU)
- temporal super resolution (TSR): Unreal Engine 5. This would also be a great general purpose name if it wasn't now claimed by Unreal branding.
- temporal filtering: Watch Dogs 2, Rainbow 6 Siege (formerly). AC Odyssey may also support this, but it isn't explicitly listed in the settings.
- temporal upscaling: Quantum Break, Rainbow 6 Siege (after patches), Watch Dogs Legion
- DLSS 2.x
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We did hear about dev kits like that, though I thought that was before Nintendo decided to take another approach with the revision (DLSS and new chipset) instead of attempting to overclock the original chipset.
Wow, that is an interesting story. Thanks for sharing.
Oh ok. I wonder what were the early dev kits for the Switch before the X1s.
For the Pro, I'm just surprised that they are dev kits that are (hopefully) close to the final hardware is coming out only a few months before the system's release. Nate believe that COVID caused one delay, but I wonder what caused the others.
You are right, Mariko models clocked at OG models battery life would definitely have been a solid upgrade.
Well in the switch case, Nintendo/ Nvidia didn't develop a new chip they used an existing one, so they probably just contained x1s. The big focus was developing the software/ toolset and API, which by all accounts was unusually mature at launch for a console.
The thing that's different with the pro is that the tools are largely iterative and the hardware is new.
Edit: if there were pre x1 devkits, they probably used tegra k1.
New bunch of gossip from Korea
m.clien.net
찌라시)닌텐도 스위치 프로 관련 : 클리앙
대만발입니다. 삼성 5나노 공정인지 tsmc공정인지 현재 정보가 혼재되어 있음. 이유는 모바일 관련 칩셋 관련해서 엔비디아사가 두곳 모두 주문 의뢰하여 생산 준비중. 단 두곳 모두 칩셋사양이 다름. 두 곳 생산 칩셋 중 하나는 엔비디아의 다른 목적의 칩셋일 가능성도 있음 스위치 프로에 들어갈 GPU클럭이 거의 1Ghz가 넘는다는 정보가 있음. 기존 스위치 클럭이 정정 합니다. 768mhz입니다. 스위치 프로 휴대모드에서 최대 720p 120프레임까지 구현할수 있는 성능이라고 함. 단 유지력 문제로 720p에 60프레임...
m.clien.net
translation?New bunch of gossip from Korea
찌라시)닌텐도 스위치 프로 관련 : 클리앙
대만발입니다. 삼성 5나노 공정인지 tsmc공정인지 현재 정보가 혼재되어 있음. 이유는 모바일 관련 칩셋 관련해서 엔비디아사가 두곳 모두 주문 의뢰하여 생산 준비중. 단 두곳 모두 칩셋사양이 다름. 두 곳 생산 칩셋 중 하나는 엔비디아의 다른 목적의 칩셋일 가능성도 있음 스위치 프로에 들어갈 GPU클럭이 거의 1Ghz가 넘는다는 정보가 있음. 기존 스위치 클럭이 정정 합니다. 768mhz입니다. 스위치 프로 휴대모드에서 최대 720p 120프레임까지 구현할수 있는 성능이라고 함. 단 유지력 문제로 720p에 60프레임...
From the clearly flawless Google translate:
It is from Taiwan. Currently, information is mixed on whether it is a Samsung 5nm process or a tsmc process. The reason is that Nvidia has ordered both for mobile-related chipsets and is preparing for production. However, both chipset specifications are different. One of the two production chipsets Possibly Nvidia's other purpose chipset There is information that the GPU clock that will go into the Switch Pro is almost 1Ghz. Existing switch clock corrects. 768 MHz. It is said that it can realize up to 720p 120 frames in Switch Pro portable mode. However, it is said that it will come out with a compromise by fixing 60 frames at 720p due to the maintenance problem. Performance in stationary mode is known to be optimized for the current 1440p resolution. It was said that Nvidia's latest technology would be included, but due to various problems, it may be applied only in the stationary mode or it may come out sealed at the time of release. There are rumors that third-party Nintendo developers have already received development kits. Nintendo has been trying to develop with AMD chipsets instead of Nvidia since 3 years ago, but due to various circumstances, it was also rumored that they chose Nvidia. And now, there are rumors in Japan that Microsoft's Xbox Game Pass for Switch will be launched at the same time as the Nintendo Switch Pro launch.
I think they are probably mixing several different things. The AMD part is obviously nonsense, but there might be som grains of truth in there.
This is quite similar to what z0m3le posted some months back, isn't it? Same clock speeds, 1 GHz docked, DLSS difficulties. Is there any indication that this isn't just a copy of his comments?
If this is true, I'm getting a Switch Pro 100% guaranteed. I'm already probably going to get one regardless, but this would be a major deal-maker.
There was some rumor a while ago, I think around when Samsung and AMD made a deal? I'd be surprised if it had any basis in reality, maybe outside of a general researching all possibilities thing. It all seemed more like an analyst/rumormonger taking the Samsung/AMD news and just kinda going "Nintendo uses Arm...AMD does consoles...MUST BE SWITCH 2!"
Keep in mind that the screen itself should support it as well. If im not mistaken, most tv's only support up to 90fps?
Yamauchi chased innovation and uniqueness as a way to assure healthy profits and constant relevance through time.
When he trasformed the company from a small playing card maker for the local market to a global leader in the interactive entertainment he made sure to foster this trait as a integral part of Nintendo's DNA.
Excerpt from the President's message 1998:
Some may also be misguided when they state that the future belongs to those with the greatest financial might. They assume success will be mandated by those who can create the greatest number of new products; or underwrite the boldest marketing; or secure the broadest distribution, or the most popular entertainment licenses. Although financial strength is necessary to compete, it's no guarantee of success.
In the year just ended, we witnessed the expansion of so-called "next generation" video game systems into millions of new homes around the world. Indeed, these machines will surpass the sales of any preceding era of technology, and their near-term success is assured even when we have not yet realized even half of the eventual retail sales for these "next generation" products.
But in fact, the biggest success of our industry in the year just passed is an appropriate lens to help see the future and is occurring on a technology that's now more than 10 years old – Game Boy. This simple hand-held, portable system became home to a new game concept, Pokémon, which already has sold through more than 8 million games in the Japan market alone. To sell at such a rate, and to reinvigorate the Game Boy platform in the process, there must be something vital at its core. And there is. It's called innovation.
Pokémon created innovation in an important way. Not by the look of the graphics or the license of an entertainment star, but by altering the experience the player has with the game machine. The innovation of Pokémon lies in its ability to combine four different attractions into a single new game experience: training, trading, collecting and adding. These dynamics individually have existed in other products. But by combining them into one new video game experience, Pokémon not only created a new mass market for these games, but also expanded that market to toys, television, trading cards, stuffed animals and audio CDs. It innovated.
Our ongoing goal:
to innovate for the purpose
of creating new game
play experiences.
To alter interactivity.
And in many cases, these innovations can create
great impact in the market without requiring new
technologies. For example, our new Game Boy Color system, while still a Game Boy at its heart, uses a new, color screen, faster processor and expanded memory. Players will get to experience more innovative games, and still enjoy the nearly 1,000 games in the existing library.
- Hiroshi Yamauchi
What Furukawa stated in interviews is that he (the current management) will follow Yamauchi's desire for uniqueness however, if in the past Nintendo was mostly interested in withered technologies, he open up to the possibility to achieve uniqueness through cutting edge tech (and accordingly is investing in R&D).
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3 years ago was back when every Switch was shipping with an unpatchable security flaw thanks to nvidia. Wouldn't be surprised if they were looking at other options for the future.
Honestly guys it's 100% bullshit, gamepass, 120hz, amd?
Here's the real deal, the super Nintendo switch is powered by a Transmeta Crusoe CPU facilitating the use of older software using it's code morphing abilities, the screen is a 60 hz oled pentile matrix display, like was suspected, also there's folders in the os and Yamauchi's ghost can be talked to by flipping the stand giving the switch a "digital" assistant
Here's the real deal, the super Nintendo switch is powered by a Transmeta Crusoe CPU facilitating the use of older software using it's code morphing abilities, the screen is a 60 hz oled pentile matrix display, like was suspected, also there's folders in the os and Yamauchi's ghost can be talked to by flipping the stand giving the switch a "digital" assistant
I'm SUPER doubtful of this. 120hz OLED display on a sub $400 USD device? It just seems very unlikely and financially infeasible given the cost of such a display and Nintendo's profit margins. I would absolutely love to be wrong though.
As for the Xbox Game Pass claim... I honestly don't know what to believe. I could totally see XGP being a Switch Pro exclusive since it would have the necessary power to run a lot of the games on that service but the business logistics just don't add up to me. I feel like if this was really happening it would've leaked by now since Microsoft can't keep anything a secret.
As for the Xbox Game Pass claim... I honestly don't know what to believe. I could totally see XGP being a Switch Pro exclusive since it would have the necessary power to run a lot of the games on that service but the business logistics just don't add up to me. I feel like if this was really happening it would've leaked by now since Microsoft can't keep anything a secret.
I basically just want one of these to be 2021 and I'm happy.... I can wait for the other two items, whichever they are, until 2022.
Super Nintendo Switch (Pro)
BOTW2
OoT / MM pack
Redmi Note 10 Pro is affordable with a 120hz 1080x2400 OLED. But the rumour seems to say the system will be limited to 60fps anyway, for whatever 'due to the maintenance problem.' means.
So it might just be saying that the provided Samsung screen is just inherently 120hz capable, but they aren't going to use that feature in case they switch suppliers or something.
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If its 2022 there's no way its revealed any time soon.
Well there arent to many other 720p 120 hz panels to compare it to?
That's a nobody. They've been pretending to be an insider for years.
This guy should be banned from being mentioned on this forum.
Reminder:
Nintendo is going to divorce Nvidia after one round to go swimming with Dolphins again?
I don't really buy the new gossip, but...
It sounds about right--I mean, par for the course for NVIDIA that is. They've never managed to keep I mean repeat a console chip contact for the next generation. the first Xbox used Nvidia, but dropped for AMD(ATI) for the 360. Then the PS3 used Nvidia for GPU after Sony decided not to use their own in-house Cell-based GPU. But after PS3, dropped Nv and IBM (and Toshiba) for AMD's APU solutions for PS4, PS4.Pro and PS5.
Somehow maybe, Jensen has managed to piss NCL off enough with his pricing (exacerbated by the chip shortage no doubt) to the point where they've gone back to their old SGI friends at AMD, and told mr greedyfuck at Nv where he can shove those tegras.
Maybe.
I doubt it though.
Because ARM?
Nah, because of Switch's overwhelming success.
I think we'll at least get 1 out of 2 expected decades from the Nintendo-Nv partnership.
my 2c
I don't really buy the new gossip, but...
It sounds about right--I mean, par for the course for NVIDIA that is. They've never managed to keep I mean repeat a console chip contact for the next generation. the first Xbox used Nvidia, but dropped for AMD(ATI) for the 360. Then the PS3 used Nvidia for GPU after Sony decided not to use their own in-house Cell-based GPU. But after PS3, dropped Nv and IBM (and Toshiba) for AMD's APU solutions for PS4, PS4.Pro and PS5.
Somehow maybe, Jensen has managed to piss NCL off enough with his pricing (exacerbated by the chip shortage no doubt) to the point where they've gone back to their old SGI friends at AMD, and told mr greedyfuck at Nv where he can shove those tegras.
Maybe.
I doubt it though.
Because ARM?
Nah, because of Switch's overwhelming success.
I think we'll at least get 1 out of 2 expected decades from the Nintendo-Nv partnership.
my 2c
This is not connected to anything but this completely passed me by at the time, looks like it went quite far into development.
For those unaware, the hoax only existed because of a similar screen design patent by Nintendo staff.
For those unaware, the hoax only existed because of a similar screen design patent by Nintendo staff.
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Why are we even entertaining that Korean post? Is there any reason at all to believe it is anything other than made up nonsense?
I'm hoping DLSS difficulties get fixed. I want DLSS for handheld. Imagine how many games just suddenly become too expensive to optimise because handheld h was just too difficult to get running on handheld mode.
Like imagine if they got RDR2 running easily on docked mode at 1440p using DLSS. But suddenly with say 1/3rd of the GPU clock available and no DLSS they hit a snag because it's either super expensive to optimise lower quality textures and effects while maintaining the look and feel of the game as intended or running it at 360p would just look awful on the OLED.
I hope they solve whatever the DLSS issue is in handheld, otherwise were left with a similar issue of games perfectly capable in docked mode but almost impossible or just very expensive to port in handheld mode.
Let's not state things too definitively. We don't actually know anything about DLSS difficulties. Z0m31e distanced himself from the contents of his post I believed, and there's a good chance the Korean post is simply copying from Z0m31e's post. Let's not start believing these issues are actually a thing, since we don't have any serious indications towards that at this point in time.
I'm glad I didn't know who Marcus Sellers was and I'm now I'm glad I'm aware of him and being a fake leaker.
Honestly, I doubt this is true. 5nm process would blow away expectations, my performance range would literally have to double from where it is now... Also 5nm but only 1GHz when docked is obviously a red flag for the process, it went from 20nm to 5nm, from 2D plannar to 3D on the most advance node... It would be a higher clock, it's not a battery issue, as these are docked numbers... I have a thin and light 4700u laptop that handles Switch Docked TDP range, and has a 1.4GHz Vega GPU and 8 ryzen cores that base clock is 2GHz... I'll expect 8nm until it is announced and we have specs saying it isn't.
I believe this is a case of rumor speculation done among insiders. I believe the fake specs shared around have caused people to bring up this fake codename "ioni", people sharing future Switch firmware actually have been throwing around "ioni", so much so that I thought it was actually in 13.0.0 just last week. We will know the pro stuff soon, bloomberg's sources has mass production starting next month with 1m as the initial production goal, we are bound to start hearing more stuff, and that will give us a whole lot more to speculate on... the reveal will also have to be soon, as a July production with that sort of volume means an October/November launch.
I don't think we will see 120hz anytime soon in a Nintendo platform because it's such a battery drain...
It's definitely a waiting game at the moment.
Personally I don't even care if we see hardware soon, I just want to see what games look like running on it.
Handheld was definitely going to always be the challenge when it comes to DLSS for certain.
So I only posted his message because I thought it was interesting that he would say this even though Emily Roger's and others follow him.
It's possible that they don't need more as this is just a "Switch Pro" and are opting for battery life instead. But I too doubt that it will be 5nm.
5nm cost a lot more than 8nm, if that is the performance they are looking for when docked, they would go with 8nm, not 5nm.
The question is with all of Nvidia's desktop and laptop Ampere GPU's being on 8nm, is there reasonable enough volume to satisfy a Switch variation when they can't keep the Ampere cards stocked? I would never expect 5nm out of the gate, but some other process could be a viable candidate.